**Dave: **Hi, this is David Spray. My guest today is John McDonough. He is in the financial services arena, and he has an interesting business around working with ultra-high net worth people and C-level executives. And he is considering starting a podcast and exploring my firm, helping him to do it. And so it was an interesting conversation. Part of it was about his background, but then we dove into the scorecard that we use to help people assess whether they're a good fit. And then we also, some of those questions we went into in greater detail to sort of brainstorm on ideas and get his thoughts.
So if you're considering starting a podcast or have ever considered it, you may find this to be really interesting to kind of put yourself in the shoes of someone else who's thinking about having a podcast, or if you have a podcast already, there may be some ideas from here that you'll find interesting that you can implement yourself. Hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did talking with John.
Hi, this is David Spray. Welcome to another episode of the podcast. My guest today is John McDonough, Senior Managing Director at Cool Springs Financial, a financial solution organization. John helps business owners, executives, and key employees with strategies for executive compensation, employee retention, bonus structures, et cetera, all designed with little to no cost to the company and little to no tax to the employee. John received a Bachelor's degree in Marketing from the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. John married his high school sweetheart, and they're the proud parents of two beautiful daughters.
He's passionate about his faith, family, and friends. In his spare time, when John isn't golfing, he's helping those in need through philanthropic initiatives he and his wife believed in deeply. They live in the Houston, Texas Metro Area. And John, welcome to the podcast.
**John: **Thank you, David.
**Dave: **So I really appreciate you making time to be on here. We're going to have fun. But I want to start with, it's rare that I meet somebody who married their high school sweetheart. So I'd like to just kind of start with that. So do you remember the first time that you saw your wife?
**John: **I do. I actually do.
**Dave: **So tell me about it. How old were you, what grade were you in? What was the circumstance?
**John: **Yeah, it's funny that you bring that up because I have two stories that I tell, one is the truth, and one is my truth.
**Dave: **Okay, can we hear both?
**John: **I'll tell you the truth. The truth is, is that well, I start with the one that it's almost people first. So if my wife is sitting next to me and somebody asked me that question, it goes something like this. I was a sophomore in high school, and I was in marching band. Which when a lot of people look at my athletic background, they have a hard time believing that, but I was in the marching band, and we would always do a summer band prior to school starting to get ready for the football season. And when we started summer band, we would do these morning exercises, jump jacks, jumping, jacks, pushups, things like that, really silly stuff, but it would get the heart rate going.
My sophomore year, out in the parking lot with my friends were getting ready to line up. I turn around, and I see this absolutely beautiful girl. Now I'm a sophomore. So I see this beautiful girl sitting next to one of my very good friends come to find out that was my good friend's sister. So I go up to her. I'm like, "Hey, is that your sister?" And she's like, "Yes, don't talk to her." And obviously, I did. And long story short, we've been married now for going on 17 years, and it's just been great. No, that's what happened. But I tell people that she first saw me and fell in love with me. She was head over heels in love with me from the first time she saw me.
**Dave: **And you didn't even notice her. You didn't even notice her.
**John: **She didn't even notice me.
**Dave: **No, I meant the story you tell, the story you tell. You were oblivious to her.
**John: **Yeah. Right. I was just another guy, and I'm like, "Oh, okay who are you?" But the reality is I was the one head over heels for her and was trying to hurry up and talk to her. And I'm a good salesperson because it took me only... What? All of high school, all of college, and a couple of years after college to convince her to marry me, so almost 10 years.
**Dave: **Well, it indicates persistence that is typically a good trait to have.
**John: **Well, it's not a no. It's just that they need more information.
**Dave: **Exactly. Exactly. So you met in high school and the Houston Area, right?
**John: **Yeah, we did. Yes.
**Dave: **What part of town? North West part?
**John: **We're from the East part of Houston-
**Dave: **The East part, okay.
*John: *... North Shore High School, which is a Texas football powerhouse.
**Dave: **Yes, it is.
**John: **Like to think that my class was really the first class to get that started onto greatness. But I had nothing to do with it because I played soccer, not football.
**Dave: **Gotcha. And you weren't even the placekicker?
**John: **No, hindsight being 2020, I should've kicked or punted or played wide receiver or tied in something like that because a lot of the guys from our program went on to play really successful D1 football and then into the pros as well. And when I daydream, I think I could have been a retired pro bowl tight end or placekicker, but that wasn't God's path for me.
**Dave: **Understood. Understood. Yeah. It seems like the placekicking gig seems like that has the longest career of any of the positions. I mean, there's some guys, I think, in their 40s or have been guys in their 40s that were still kicking.
**John: **Oh, year there still are Adam Vinatieri. I mean, if you can kick, I mean, they don't hardly get touched. I know the guys on the football team. I don't really consider them football players.
**Dave: **Sure,
**John: **But you can make a really good annual salary kicking a football, a pigskin for lots of years.
**Dave: **Oh yeah. There's a few exceptions. There was the kicker that the Texans had a while back. Maybe he was their first kicker. And he actually, I think, was a position player in high school as well. And I can't think of his name. He was on, I'd hear him on sports radio programs, but he relished the on kickoffs of laying people out on a kickoff. So he seemed like the exception. So speaking of soccer, how did your... Speaking of soccer, how did you end up in North Carolina?
**John: **Yeah. So Texas high school soccer is not the place, at least for boys. It's not the showcase needed to get to. At least it wasn't at the time in the mid '90s. It wasn't the place to get showcased to go to school. So I played on a club team here in the greater Houston area. There's a club team called Texan Soccer Club. And I played for that team, and they have these college showcase tournaments, and we were super competitive team playing very good teams from all over the country. And college coaches would come to these showcase tournaments to see a concentration of fairly good talent. And I was fortunate enough to play a really good tournament and got recruited by the coach at the time for UNC Charlotte. And I didn't have a whole lot of offers. So when you get asked, and you don't have a whole lot of offers, that's a pretty attractive proposal.
**Dave: **So it's actually a blessing in disguise, right?
**John: **Yeah.
**Dave: **Because you weren't overwhelmed and wondering which of the hundred schools to choose from.
**John: **I think I would have liked to have had that again, but everyone's got a path that they have to go down, and that was just for me. It was taking the more scenic route, I should say to a college career. But UNC Charlotte, at the time when I went there, they had just come off of going to the College Final Four for soccer, the Collegiate Final Four, which is a pretty big deal. And as it turns out, unbeknownst to me, I was at that game. They played it in Virginia, against Florida International University and UNC Charlotte at the time they lost on a bicycle kick to lose the game in the final, in the semi-final game. And I don't know if you're a soccer guy.
**Dave: **I'm enough of a guy that, yeah, I know that I've seen the videos of Palae doing it. Wasn't he the guy that kind of pioneered it or first brought it to prominence.
**John: **And then Rinaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo doesn't know, but this guy bicycle kicked at the top of the 18-yard box shuttle lasered into the net. And that's how they lost. So I got there as a freshman. We went to the NCAA tournament, and every year we got progressively worse as I was the starting goalkeeper. So then I had a cup of coffee as a semi-pro player in Nashville. There was a league called The A-League at the time, which is now it was rolled into the USL, which is the United Soccer League, not the MLS. It's the kind of like the AAA equivalent to the MLS. And I had to make a decision. Did I want to fight it out in semi-pro soccer? If I ever got to look at MLS team, would I want to be a marginal team player, never get a big contract struggling to make 30 or 40 grand a year, or did I want to dig in as a 20, 21-year-old and start my business career. And that was the decision that I made. So I came back home to Houston.
**Dave: **That is awesome. I had a guest on my other podcast. It was a former client. He'd sold his business. His name is John Bryan. And he's quite a bit older than you are, but he played baseball at two-lane, and he had taken a job in Houston. And like three days before he was supposed to start, he gets a call that he was drafted in the professional baseball draft. I mean, he was in the lower rounds, and he went through that same assessment, and he decided that it was a great job offer and he wanted to take it. And because he thought at some point, I'm going to have to get a real job, he wasn't going to make enough in his baseball career to be financially independent for life. So if I'm going to have to get a job eventually, so why don't I start now?
**John: **I respect that decision because as athletes, from the time you're in little league, going up through high school into college, your only singular thought is, "I want to play pro. I want to play pro." And really, the degree is just a by-product of having to do the things you have to do to maintain status.
**Dave: **Right.
**John: **It is. And so that cathartic moment of, "What am I going to do that? Why on the road?" I really respect guys that can do that. I respect the other decision, too, because I didn't make it, but I respect the decision to move forward in business because, quite frankly, that's where the longevity is.
**Dave: **Yeah, for sure. And to be clear, I'm working out from memory. He may have been drafted in a higher round, but still, back then, it was like in the late '60s, early '70s, salaries weren't as high. So Johnny, if you're listening, if you were drafted on a higher round, I apologize. So okay, now that we have that covered. So did you then get into the financial services business right out of college?
**John: **I did. I put my resume online, and being a D1 athlete is pretty attractive to people hiring. And my dad who was in the oil and gas business and had been laid off from the oil and gas business in Houston multiple times in the energy business. And my mom was a school teacher. My dad said, "Go into sales because if you're in sales, you can control your destiny. You will always have a job somewhere."
So I put my resume online for some type of sales position, and I was intrigued by financial sales. I didn't really know what that meant, but I knew that my parents didn't have money. And I knew that I wanted to make smart decisions with money. And so I kind of found myself in the financial services arena. And at the time, they're not around anymore, but American Express Financial Advisors brought me on. I had done an internship while in college at Merrill Lynch, and I was pretty attractive, but I found the dirty side of big wirehouse that I didn't want to be involved with. So I got on with American Express Financial Advisors, and they paid me to study. They paid me to get my career going. So pretty grateful for that.
**Dave: **That is awesome. Early in my career, I spent about four years in financial services and so I can appreciate the experience. So then so you did that for a while, but then I think a few years ago, maybe close to a decade ago, you decided to join Cool Springs Financial.
**John: **I did.
**Dave: **Tell us about Cool Springs and what prompted you to want to join.
**John: **Yeah. God puts things in your path, and when you're ready, you'll see it. And I spent a little bit of time in American Express Financial Advisors about six months. I quickly moved over to a company called AXA Advisors, which is now known as the Equitable. It was the Equitable when I got there. The French bought, it became AXA Advisors, and now they split in the Equitable again. So I started my own, I broke off from them, and I started my own independent financial advising company back in 2010. And about that same period in time, I joined an exclusively member-owned company called First Financial Resources, which specializes strictly in the life insurance business. It's a life insurance member-owned entity. And really, what FFR does is designed to allow independent advisors and producers to communicate directly with the carriers to insurance companies and not have to go through a middleman called and field marketing organization or an independent marketing organization.
**Dave: **I see.
**John: **That really helps move client cases along better, faster. It's also a think tank, a think tank of really high-powered individuals that have been in the business for a long time, from all different aspects of the business. That's how I met Sam Watson, the Founder, and CEO of Cool Springs Financial. I was honored to be nominated for the Board of First Financial Resources. And at the time, I was the youngest board member ever that they had sitting on the board, and I served seven years on the board and finished my last year as chairman of the board. And I'm now still just a member of FFR. But in my seven years of serving on the board, Sam Watson as well was on the board, and we got to know each other really well. And he saw how I thought, I saw how he thought our perspective on life, our faith, our commonality, we really loved golf.
So he kind of took me under his wing because he's... What? 25 years my senior. And so he took me under his wing and came to find out his daughters are very successful young women in their own right. But they don't want anything to do with the insurance business. So Sam, unbeknownst to me, was kind of actively looking for who could potentially be a successor of Cool Springs if anything would happen to me.
**Dave: **Because his daughters wouldn't be since they weren't interested.
**John: **Correct.
**Dave: **Got it.
**John: **So as God would have it right place, right time just really connected. And so he's kind of taken me under his wing, and I'm the successor God willing, nothing happens to Sam for a long time. but then I would be that person for Cool Springs. And so he's like, I wouldn't call him a dad, but he's like an older brother to me. I really influential grounding, older brother to me.
**Dave: **Oh, he sounds like a perfect mentor.
**John: **He's a man's man. He's an awesome guy.
**Dave: **That sounds great. Well, so let's dig in a little more to Cool Springs. Is it Springs, plural, or is it Spring, singular?
**John: **Yeah. So just so you know, Cool Springs is a community just South of Nashville, right outside of Brentwood and Franklin, which is just south of Nashville in Tennessee. So, Cool Springs, Cool Springs Financial is how the name was created.
**Dave: **I see. Named after the town.
**John: **Yeah.
**Dave: **Gotcha. Okay. And so how do you describe the firm services to people who you're talking to for the first time?
**John: **In its most simplest form. So I get asked this all the time. What do you do? And depending on the mood that I'm in, if I'm sitting on the airplane-
**Dave: **If you don't want to talk.
**John: **If I don't want to talk to anybody, I just tell them I sell life insurance.
**Dave: **And that does the trick.
**John: **That's it. So it's done. The reality is, is the life insurance that we provide to our clients is a very unique design life insurance. And we have two different categories we go down. One is on the ultra-high net worth family office space where clients are trying to minimize the impact in the financial drain that estate taxes would have on their wealth for their heirs. On the other side is on the corporate side, the privately held businesses and small to medium-sized businesses where there's family ownership, there's single ownership, there's dual partnership or multiple partners. They're C-suite executives. And they're struggling with turnover. They're struggling with employee retention. They're struggling with bonus structure because all of that costs the company money. So we use life insurance as a tool to cover all of those things.
Now what's congruent on both sides of our businesses on the ultra-high net worth estate planning side, or on the business planning side, is our clients do not write premium checks at all. Ever. We finance those from bank lending. So the clients have the financial wherewithal to qualify for the lending, but the clients are not the ones writing the premium checks, but banks are writing the premium checks on behalf of the clients through the policies.
**Dave: **Oh, interesting. Okay. I tell you what? I have another podcast, my original podcast, that's really focused on a specific part of the tax code in our audience for that tend to be CPAs and bankers and successful entrepreneurs. Would you be available to come on that show at some point in time and to kind of dive more into that and maybe hear some case studies and such?
**John: **You bet. I'd love to do it.
**Dave: **Okay. Well, let's do that because I want to learn more about this. But I don't want to get too far off track, but the last question kind of related to that, but really, a couple of questions, who are the people that are your kind of best designed to serve? I mean, you've sort of answered the question, ultra-high net worth people who need the liquidity to pay the estate taxes, and then the other are C- level executives and other entrepreneurs who do not want to have to write a check for the life insurance premiums. Is that about that?
**John: **Yeah, it is. And so let me kind of give you some metrics on that just real quick. And I know we'll get into it more detail on your other podcast.
**Dave: **Yeah, that's okay. Let's spend some time on it.
**John: **Okay. So last year we were undergoing a tax law change. It's not into effect yet, but all intents and purposes, it will be in effect next year. And a part of that, they're going to try to adjust the amount of estate tax exclusions that a family has. So right now, using round figures about $25 million, if a family has $25 million and it's a husband and wife, then anything above that is subject to an estate tax upon the second spouse's death when it goes down to the next generation. Right?
**Dave: **Right.
**John: **And it's subject to about a 45% tax right now. Well, the talk is, is that the new administration is going to change that $25 million limit down to about a five or $10 million limit. And then every dollar over that will be subject to a 55% tax to the next generation. And that's big, right?
**Dave: **Sure.
**John: **So what the premium finance insurance designs do is it protects the liquidity. It protects the fire sale of a business. It protects the liquidation of assets that don't need to be liquidated because the IRS comes knocking nine months after the date of death for that check to be paid for estate tax. Now on the business side, nothing is black and white. There's gray area, but the rule of thumb is if you're in a manufacturing business or you have a high cost of goods, then your top-line revenue probably should be pushing North of $10 million a year because we found in our experience that the balance sheet of the company tends to have fairly decent liquidity when there's high cost of goods. But the top-line revenue is up that high.
However, if you're a service professional and you have hardly any cost of goods, well, your top-line revenue can be three or $4 million in potentially qualify for our program because your liquidity is substantially high at that level. So those are kind of the benchmarks that, again, they're not black and white, so I'm not just counting or disqualifying anybody, but those are just kind of the benchmarks to get the conversation started.
**Dave: **Okay. So, that is very helpful. And like I said, I want to dive in on this a bit more, but the last question on that is... Actually, I've got a couple of other questions that I typically ask our guests. So what would you say the biggest couple of misconceptions people have about your business?
**John: **Man, there's a bunch.
**Dave: **Okay. Maybe one that comes to mind.
**John: **I think if I'm getting granular, I would say if someone's heard the term premium finance before, they tend to think all premium finance is the same. And that couldn't be further from the truth. That's like saying all ice cream tastes the same, lots of different flavors, lots of different textures. And obviously, we're biased to our design, but we feel like our design is better than everyone else in the industry.
On a more generic scale, I would say the misconception is life insurance is a horrible vehicle because Dave Ramsey and Suze Orman says it is, but no one knows why they say this. And nobody wants to borrow money because we're talking about when we say lending, people think debt, and it's not that way. So what we're trying to do is we're trying to overcome the misconception of conventional wisdom, and I'm using air quotes. You can't see me. "Don't borrow money and don't buy life insurance."
**Dave: **Yup. And you're suggesting they do both.
**John: **I'm suggesting if they're smart with the money and they understand how economics work in the arbitrage, I'm absolutely recommending they do both.
**Dave: **Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, again, I look forward to getting into this in more detail soon on the other podcast. So what part of the business gives you the most energy or enthusiasm? What part of what you do is kind of the best part for you?
**John: **For me, the moment where it's all worth it is after I'm talking with an attorney, CFO, CEO, the powers that decision-making circle for that prospective client. The thing that it's everything for me is when they're like, "I got it." When that light bulb goes off when they finally fully understand everything that we're talking about. And then immediately after the aha the, I got it, that light bulb moment, then they're just overwhelmed with excitement. Like, "Well, how much can we do? Is there a limit? Who else can we do this for?" It did it for that excitement. That moment for me. And it's probably about a three-minute window, they get it for me.
**Dave: **Yeah. And that's awesome. And I can relate to some degree. And I'm also guessing that the other thing that happens that you can almost see in their face is that their perception of you shifts from being a salesperson to an advisor. Do you have that experience too? I know I do in our tax consulting business.
**John: **I'm very fortunate, David, in the sense on how I'm introduced and brought into relationships is mostly via referral, word of mouth. You've got to talk to John. I got to listen to John. And so I don't think I'm there as the overt salesperson. Clearly, they know I'm selling a solution. Right?
**Dave: **Right.
**John: **But they do already view me as kind of like a product matter expert. But yes, when the value is recognized, they view me differently.
**Dave: **Yeah. I can appreciate that. And then it's those relationships from that point forward, I find them to be just a little deeper and more significant because you're now this trusted partner.
**John: **Yeah, you're part of the team. I become a part of the team and part of their decision-making circle. And it's an honor to be brought into that.
**Dave: **Sure. Yeah, no, I have that same experience with what we do. So I wanted to just give some background on your business so the listeners would have some context when we kind of dive into podcasting and why you are considering having a podcast. So I understand you're thinking seriously about starting a podcast. Is that right?
**John: **I am.
**Dave: **So let's kind of dive in. So, could you talk a bit about your current kind of marketing strategy and activities and how you could imagine a podcast being able to amplify those efforts?
**John: **Yes, absolutely. From based on what I just said previously, we don't really have marketing collateral per se. We're not a marketing company. We're a solutions company. And that's a problem for us because inevitably, when we get introduced to somebody just happened to me this morning, as a matter of fact, "Hey John, can't wait to talk to you. Is there anything you can send me in advance?" And I don't have that. We don't have that because our solutions are so customized to the problems and issues that our potential clients are facing. We don't really have anything off the shelf that does justice to what we do as a problem solver a solution provider.
**Dave: **I see.
**John: **And so my thought process is while I guess I am risking putting our intellectual property out there into the stratosphere, I think more good than harm will come from having a podcast, using it as an explanatory medium for people to listen whenever they want to, to what we do. And I think it also gives prospective clients, attorneys, CPAs, advisors the opportunity to form their opinion about me, obviously my voice, my tenor, my cadence, my personality.
**Dave: **Knowledge.
**John: **Yeah, my knowledge or my lack of knowledge. If my wife would, was talking about me. But it gives them a chance to form an opinion about me. And I can maybe earn trust in advance of that first conversation.
**Dave: **I think that's a brilliant idea. Earn trust in advance, actually writing that down. I really liked that phrase. In fact, I'm probably going to borrow it and give you credit for it if you don't mind.
**John: **Yeah, I don't mind at all. I probably borrowed it from somebody else and forgot to give them credit for it.
**Dave: **Yeah. That's how it goes. No, so that makes sense. So I'd like to dive into that a bit further, and we actually have an assessment, or we call it a scorecard, and the listeners, you can find that scorecard at yourpodcastscore.com. It takes about five minutes to fill out. There's eight questions. The scoring is from zero to 12, with a total possible score of 96. And so what I'd like to do is kind of drill into a few of your answers, if you don't mind.
**John: **Yeah, let's do it.
**Dave: **So one of the questions is about keeping in touch and in the... So there's four statements, and I'm going to read this statement that you said related most, and that is that I don't have content systems or tools to reliably keep in touch with prospects and clients as much as I'd like. And we find this as... I know I was in this spot and when I started my podcast and part of that was that I didn't want to be annoying and send out too many emails to people. And so thus, I erred to the side of sending out too few emails. Is that kind of like your situation or talk to me about your answer to that one.
**John: **Completely. You remember I mentioned that we're brought in as a product matter expert or a subject matter expert, a solution provider, a problem solver. And maybe I was painted into a salesperson corner early on in my career, but I have a real anxiety or phobia of being positioned that way and being thought of that way. I just don't want to be that guy. And like you, David, I probably err on the side of too little communication, too little follow-up, too little asking to take the next action step, even though when I know that they should, because I don't want to be the pushy sales guy. So having something that allows me to do that is tremendously valuable, not only for my business but only for my emotional wellbeing as well.
**Dave: **Sure. Yeah, because to give the listeners an idea, the way we do it and the way our clients do it and the company name, by the way, is Your Podcast Team. Website is YourPodcast.team, and what our experience has been and what we recommend our clients is having a podcast... There's many benefits having a podcast. But one of them that relates to this topic is that if you're releasing one episode a month, it gives you on each episode is a new media release. So, in theory, it has the same validity as the release of a TV episode or a Netflix episode or a newspaper article, or it's a medium, and it has a specific release date. And so, thus, one can argue that that's newsworthy.
So anytime we release a new podcast episode or our client's release one, there's an email announcing that release. And we intentionally make that email as short and straightforward and simple as possible. We recommend not using any graphics or any downloads because we want people to be able to just read it. And it's usually a very short email. In fact, the email for this episode will just be kind of a one or two-paragraph summary of our conversation and suggesting people listen. And so what I've found is that I've never had anyone say to me... People unsubscribed, but nobody's ever said, "It's really offensive that I get an email from you once a month that's short, and you're telling me about a podcast. And I think it's because it's not offensive. And what we find is that most of the people who get the email, "Do not listen to the podcast," but that little, just two-paragraph synopsis gives them a sense of what it's about. And they know that it might be useful to them. And so that's what I'm kind of imagining the benefit to you, in this case, is that sound about right?
**John: **Yeah, absolutely.
**Dave: **So yeah. And it's funny because when you look at it one way, you think, "Oh, geez, one email a month, that's hardly anything," is that even really better than what I'm doing now, but when you look at it a different way, and you say, "Hey, how many emails have I sent the last say three or four years that were helpful and not pushy."
It's probably not very many, but if you think, "Well, let's say I do this for four years. And I look back," then all of a sudden, 50 emails over four years sounds like a significant number, but still not an overwhelming number because... So I guess what I'm saying on the front end, once a month doesn't sound very much, it doesn't sound like you're making much progress, but when you look back a year or two years in the future, it has more of a punch.
**John: **Yeah, I agree. And then the other thing that I'm thinking it allows us to do is build a place that my story can be told to premium finance story. The Cool Springs story can be told one time, and they can go listen to it when they're ready to listen to it. And they just keep getting reminded. I got to listen to the story. I got to listen to this story. And it's a non-threatening way to just stay front of mind. I mean, what's the statistic? You probably know this better than I, but you have to in today's environment from a marketing perspective. You have to touch someone seven to 10 or seven to 12 times before they do something about it and take action with it.
**Dave: **Yeah. I think that's right. They have to be exposed many more times than what you might think before it sinks in and they do something. Yeah. And another use that you can have is that if you're talking to somebody and you're having some preliminary conversation, and they remind you of a fact pattern of like a client or an attorney that you worked with and you think, "Oh, that was attorney I worked with," and I had him on the podcast six months ago. And that situation is very similar to this one. So now I can say to this potential client, "Hey, your situation is actually really like this one we talked about on this podcast, I can send you a link to that podcast and you can learn more about it." I find that to be very powerful for two reasons.
One is that it allows you to drop the fact that you have a podcast, which in today's world is still extraordinarily rare for a company to have a podcast. If it's not, say a Fortune 500 company or something. And so one is you get the credibility boost. And the other is that 45-minute conversation you had with that attorney talking in great detail about their anonymous client that person listening can really dig in as much as they want without feeling any sales pressure, because if you're sitting on the other side of the table telling the story, they may have their guard up to some extent. So does that seem like that could also be a use for you?
**John: **Without questioning. And one of the things that we deal with and have to address it from time to time is clients and, or their trusted advisors, their CPAs or attorneys. They want referrals and references. Well, in the space that we work, privacy is of the utmost importance to our clients.
**Dave: **Sure.
**John: **And it's always a challenging position where we're like, "Well, I mean, I can redact some information, but I can't really ask them to talk to you because they're successful on their own right. And it's not their job to talk to you." So this podcast that I'm wanting to do, it allows, I think it will take that place. So when they hear, maybe I'll get some clients on there, if they're willing to do it, maybe I get some attorneys. A lot of, in fact, I know I will get some attorneys and CPAs from some reputable firms that will address the credit because, ultimately, that's a credibility issue. Do I trust what you're saying? And can I hear it from someone else who's not going to sell the product or the solution? And I think that will help address that question.
**Dave: **Yeah. Without a doubt. I know because there are some similarities between our tax consulting business. It's the same way that I've got. Yeah, I've had advisors on there. And I've been fortunate enough to have a few clients who like after they sold their business and they no longer need the tool, they're more comfortable talking about it.
**John: **How amazing when our client no longer needs the tool.
**Dave: **Yeah, exactly. Now I get it. And it really, and in some ways, your sale in some ways is almost more to the advisors than the actual client. I'm guessing.
**John: **It is.
**Dave: **Yeah. So I'm guessing that if you can get their attorney, their estate planning attorney, to listen to a podcast done by another reputable estate planning attorney telling the story, that'll go a long way. And that attorney can always call up that guest and say, "Hey, I happen to listen to your podcast. I know you can't tell me who your client is by name, but I'm just wondering if I could ask you a few questions and I've found that my need for references has gone way down because of that, because I can say, "Hey, instead of interrupting someone's day and trying to get 10 minutes to do a reference call, you can comfortably listen for 45 minutes or an hour for as long as you want to get comfort." So yeah, I think you'll understand the-
**John: **I'm really hoping/counting on that being the outcome from this, and our clients, our prospective clients, they all love it. Everyone does. That's not where the skepticism comes into play. It's when their attorneys, they pay their attorneys to say no or at least dig in. And so you're exactly right. That's where our... I wouldn't call it friction. But our challenge with credibility and proof comes to play.
**Dave: **Yeah. Because their attorney or their CPA, that you've had a relationship with maybe for decades and if that person says, I just, I'm not crazy about the idea. That's like all it takes sometimes.
**John: **That's it, that all it takes. You are exactly right.
**Dave: **So well, good. Well, that's helpful. And hopefully, that was helpful for you kind of brainstorming on that question.
So now, let's go to the next one, lifetime value. So there's four answers here. The lifetime value of my clients is less than a grand. A client is worth 1000 to 10,000, a client's worth 10,000 to 20,000, or a client is worth at least 20,000 over the life of the relationship. And your answer to that was that last one that a client's worth more than 20,000. And so the reason that question is, and I'm not going to ask you exactly what your client value is, but to say it's over 20 grand is sufficient. The reason we have this question, and I imagine you probably did this analysis is whether you're doing it internally or hiring somebody to have a podcast, episode amount, it'll cost around $10,000 a year.
So we have that in there kind of helping people prepare that if they're looking for justification, if the value of a client is more than 20 grand and the podcast cost you 10 grand, well, if the podcast helps you close a client every two years, like in theory you breakeven. So can you talk about how you did that analysis as far as a cost-benefit analysis factoring in the lifetime value of a client? Did you do it similarly, or did you think about it a little differently?
**John: **Can I be completely candid with you?
**Dave: **Yes. You can be completely candid.
**John: **It was a complete no-brainer for me knowing the value of just one client and the time and energy and the overcoming objections that I'm expecting this podcast to cover for me. The costs, I've also been programmed to believe nothing is a business cost. It's always a business investment. It's not an expense. It's an investment. And so it was very easy for me to make the decision to invest into this podcast, knowing that the return on that investment will be... The ROI will be tremendous, probably not even able to calculate. That's how good the ROI will be. Ultimately when this gets up and going, where we have enough shows in the can, I guess, as you would say, and an inventory of a story to tell for prospective clients and trusted advisors, not even a calculation I had to do.
**Dave: **Okay. Well, that's good. That was a helpful calculation because that's why we have this here, because if somebody is in a business that the lifetime value of a client's, $100 then unless the podcast is going to help them close hundreds or thousands of deals, it probably doesn't make economic sense for them. In fact, I don't think we've ever had a client whose lifetime value of a client was less than 20,000 because of that same metric.
So a couple more questions. And boy, I can't believe how fast the time has flown by. So the seventh and eighth questions, seven is, do what you love, and the answer is at the extreme. Some people say, or they're kind of funny at one extreme. The answer is I don't like talking with people, and at the other extreme, I enjoy talking with people one-to-one, understanding more about their situation, and helping them better understand my subject. So you answered that one as a 10. So do you want to just talk a bit about that and how that mindset helps you hosting a podcast?
**John: **Yeah, and I think it's probably already kind of been shed in some light with how I've answered some previous questions or talked about some things. We're problem solvers. I'm a problem solver. I need to listen to what each client is facing. I need to understand what their challenges are and what their obstacles that they're trying to overcome are. And yes, I have a product available to me, but that product is like molding clay. It can be shaped and molded to the unique circumstance and environment that each prospective client is facing. It's not like all I have is a hammer and everybody looks like a nail. It's not that.
So I get a lot of energy and excitement solving problems, and thus that's a one-to-one conversation. And I consider one-to-one being, client CEO, CFO, attorney. Those are one to me.
**Dave: **Sure.
**John: **I'm not good at mass marketing myself. I'm not good at... I mean, I'm a good educator in groups. I'm better one-on-one, and so that's really where my passion is.
**Dave: **Yeah. I can relate. I'm really the same way. And so, hey, here's just an idea. If you're willing to kind of take a bit of a risk, what you can do with one of your episodes is if you found an advisor like with a brand new potential client and like you had maybe just met the advisor, if, but let's just say that like the client meeting wasn't available for... The client wasn't available for like a month. You could have that advisor on and basically go through that problem-solving exercise, like in real-time with them on the podcast.
Now the plus is that if everything goes great, it really demonstrates that problem-solving ability. The drawback is always that if for some reason it goes really poorly, it may not be the ideal situation. So, but that is something to think about. And I guess if you had to, if it just went horribly wrong, you just could not release the episode.
**John: **At least said, you don't even have to publish it.
**Dave: **That's true. Yeah, I think of it as like a live radio interview, but you're right. Sometimes I forget, "Oh yeah, this doesn't have to be published if it goes bad." So you may just think about that as you explore a podcast.
**John: **That's a good idea. And that gives a lot of freedom, knowing that if it doesn't go great, you can do a retake on it.
**Dave: **Sure. Yeah. That's exactly right. So, that brings us to the last question. And this one is around outsourcing and kind of a person's mindset. And so the one extreme the answer is I believe in keeping everything in-house because it's the most cost-effective way to do things. And the other extreme, I'm laser-focused on our core competency and outsource everything else. And you answered that a 10. And the reason we have that in here is our service is called Podcast Done For You. And it's a turnkey outsourcing of the podcast. The client only has to record the interview, and that's it. And so that's that mindset matters. And so you answered that as a 10. So can you just touch on kind of that mindset and how that impacted your decision?
**John: **You bet, and I don't know if that's my athletic background, but I was a goalkeeper, and I had one job. Keep the ball out of the yard. I wasn't supposed to score the goals. I wasn't supposed to distribute the ball through the field. That's what the other 10 players are for. I wasn't supposed to create the strategy. That's what the coach was for. So I guess I've been programmed from a very early age to stay in my lane and do what I do. And I also feel like it's a business myth that if you keep things in-house, it costs you less money. And again, I think it costs you more and miss business opportunity because you're trying to do things that you're not good at, and you're not specialized, or your staff isn't specialized in.
So I have zero issue outsourcing to people that are better at things than I am. And so if you can program package something up where it's done for me, I can talk about what I'm passionate about and knowledgeable about, and everything else can be handled. That's a no-brainer for me. And that's why I'm deciding to proceed forward with this.
**Dave: **Okay. Well, that sounds great. You're like the... I don't know, the third or fourth person who was thinking about a podcast, we did the podcast, and by the end of it, they're like, "Yeah, I want to move forward." So hopefully, this experience was helpful in your assessment then to get to that point.
**John: **It was. Anything talking through things and having conversation really helps get to a decision point.
**Dave: **Yeah. I can understand. Well, with that, why don't we go ahead and wrap up. So if people want to learn more about the firm or reach out to you, what is the best way for them to do so?
**John: **Yeah, so the website is coolspringsfinancial.com, very simple words. coolspringsfinancial.com. And my email is Jmcdonough@coolspringsfinancial.com.
**Dave: **Great. And we will have that in the show notes. So, John, this has been a really enjoyable hour for me, and I learned a little more about the premium finance world. And I'm excited to dig in more on the next podcast for the other podcast. Was there anything that we didn't talk about that you think we should have?
**John: **No, I don't think so. I think we covered it all. Great job.
**Dave: **Well, I appreciate you making the time and really appreciate being on the show. And I look forward to our next podcast.
**John: **Wonderful, David. Thank you. I do too.
**Dave: **All right. Have a great day, John.
**John: **You too. Thank you.
**Dave: **And there we have it, another great episode. Don't forget to check out the show notes at www.podcastingstories.com. This podcast is brought to you by Your Podcast Team. If you have ever considered having your own podcast, head over to www.yourpodcast.team to learn more about how they can help you. That's it for this episode, have a great week, and we'll talk to you next time.