Podcasting Stories

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Ep003: Problem Solving with Heath Barnes - Transcript

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Dave: So my guest today is Heath Barnes. Heath is a mortgage broker in Houston, Texas and he's also a coach for people in the mortgage business. He's a really interesting guy. He's got a great perspective on things and he's got some great lessons in here that I think you'll enjoy learning about. He talks about leadership skills and with yourself as the person you must first lead before you can lead others. And then he also talks about how the problem solving is really important. It's something that they don't really teach in school, just like they don't teach leadership skills in school. He also talked about finding people better than you and surrounding yourself with those people. And lastly, he talks about doing something every day that makes you uncomfortable. And in the episode he talks about one of those things that he does every day that I think you'll enjoy hearing about.
So I hope you enjoy listening to this interview with Heath as much as I did it. Welcome to another episode of podcasting stories. My name is David Spray and my guest today is Heath Barnes. Heath is a professional coach in the mortgage industry who also operates a residential mortgage firm for Cardinal Financial, spearheaded by a motivated and enthusiastic and fun group of 20 mortgage professionals who helped dreams come true in Houston, Texas. He's been in the mortgage industry for 20 years. He's coached mortgage professionals for the last 10 years and to help loan officers, 10X their businesses through the strategies he learned as a coach with the CORE Training. Keith, welcome to the podcast.

Heath: Thank you, David. I appreciate the opportunity to be on one of your famous podcasts.

Dave: Well, I don't know about famous, but I appreciate you being on anyway, so let's get started. Let's... how did you get into the mortgage business?

Heath: Wow. So, I got in the mortgage business, I can't believe it's been 20 years now, but I was actually in the automobile business and I was in the finance area of the automobile business. And I was engaged to a girl that I met on match.com and she told me if I didn't get out of the car business she wasn't going to marry me. And that was 20 years ago. And so I got out of the car business and got in the mortgage business. And the only reason I got in the mortgage business is because I had another friend that was in the car business that told me about the mortgage business and it seemed like a good fit. So I moved from an income of about 10 grand a month to two grand a month. And what people do when they're in love and about to get married and I wanted to get married, but she had other plans.
A few months later she said, "Heath I appreciate all that you've done, but I'm no longer in love with you." And so a lot of great things came about as a result of ending that relationship. But we might talk more about that later on the call, but yeah, I got out of the car business and into the mortgage business and that was in 2001 or 2002, I believe. And it's funny unanswered prayers sometimes are the best things that can happen to you in life because it kind of led to my career today and my wife, Cynthia. So, yeah, super blessed to have had that difficult situation happen. So, that's how I got in the mortgage business.

Dave: That is great. I didn't realize those details of your story, so who are your customers?

Heath: Yeah. My customers when it comes to doing mortgages is anyone that needs a residential lending, or any realtor that needs a good lender that can get to their client to closing on time. The mortgage industry seems to have changed a lot here recently. And I think most people in their frame of mind want to get a mortgage and paid off as quickly as possible. But the new framework that we're in, most people don't understand how you can use a mortgage to your advantage. I like to say, how do you take out a liability and turn it into an asset by getting a mortgage, especially with these historically low interest rates that we have. So, yeah, anybody that's wants some direction in finances, I'll take an on-hands approach, meaning I look at someone's financial profile and help them figure out the best way to structure their mortgage. So that's what I do part-time, full-time really I'm coaching loan officers and my team on how to execute in the mortgage industry. So I think it's a great industry and it's one that's not been scooped up by technology yet, meaning it's still around, so.

Dave: Now that, I would agree. So, on the surface, to me it seems like the mortgage brokerage industry, it just seems like a pure commodity that all people care about is the rate and closing costs. But I suspect there's more to it than that. So on the mortgage side, what are the some of the things you and your team do to differentiate your services, or maybe give us a case study of something that some people might consider unique, but it's the type of deal you guys get done all the time. Do you have a kind of an example that you could give?

Heath: Yeah, so like I was just mentioning, when I look at someone's situation, whether it's buying a new home or let's say even refinancing, I'm looking at the situation and I'm saying to myself, okay, well, how can we position this mortgage to most benefit the client? So I'll give you a couple of ways we do that. Number one, I had a client just yesterday that's currently at a three and a half percent interest rate on a $300,000 loan. And the value is right at a million dollars. And he's 61 years old and just got displaced from the oil and gas industry. He went from making $130,000 a year to $60,000 a year. His payment was $1,600 a month. Well, we refinanced a loan that he has seven years he's into, we gave him the same interest rate, no closing costs and dropped his payment almost $300 a month. And showed him how he's already invested $600,000 in his real estate tip for him to pay off that mortgage faster is really cost-prohibitive, meaning the value of money in the future is probably going to go down, meaning the arising inflation.
So that would be one example of someone where it's a little unconventional, most people would think, okay, I need a 15 or a 10 year mortgage with a super low interest rate. And I want to pay it off as fast as possible. What we want to look at is, okay, what would we do with that extra money? With this guy's case he needed the extra money to live on. Somebody else might take that extra money and that they're saving on their mortgage and put it in a 401K, right? Because a 401K as you know is tax deductible. And now you have compound interest working for you rather than a mortgage as simple interest. Your investments are compound and so the more money that you can put into a vehicle that's going to multiply over time, that's going to make a lot more sense. If we had interest rates that were 6 to 8%, this conversation would be completely different.
But the interest rates we have today, you want as much leverage as possible so you can go into the market, whether it's whatever your investment style is and find something that's going to execute at least 3 or 4% return. So, but that's just a couple of ways we help people. So most people when they come to me they say, "Hey, we want to put 20% down." And I like to ask really in-depth questions with clients and say, well, Why do you want to put 20% down? I mean a lot of people will dump all of their money into the mortgage when they should be, depending on their situation, whether they're self-employed or they're a W2 employee and just dumping all of your money into a mortgage doesn't always make the most sense. So we just try to take an on hand approach and asking a lot of questions and not telling them what they should do, but just giving them two or three different options. So, does that make sense?

Dave: And I'll tell you... That makes perfect sense and I can speak to this personally because you and your team have helped us with several refinances through the years. And that your thinking with the historical low rates initially I disagreed with, I was kind of in the mindset of pay off the loan as quickly as possible. But when you were able to show me and really have me think about the benefit of a two and a half percent 30 year loan, the question is, how likely is it that in five years I'll regret having a two and a half percent mortgage and it seemed pretty unlikely to me. And so that was the direction that we went thanks to you and your counsel. So thank you for your advice and just the great job your team did for us.

Heath: Yeah, for sure. One of the things that people should be aware of I think, especially if you're in the mortgage industry and even if you're not in the industry is looking at the money supply that's currently in our market. And the government has pumped a lot of US dollars into the market. And they're continuing to pump a lot of US dollars. And so a really low interest rate is still in the threes And most people don't realize that the value of money will be going down, meaning inflation is going up. And some of the things you hear on the news about, well, our inflation is like less than 2%, that's because they're comparing it to the consumer price index and not to the money supply. And once you add in the money supply, our real rate of inflation's probably close to 12 to 15%.
So if inflation is that high and you could borrow money at 3%, why would you not? And then secondhand, why would you try to pay it off faster? So for those of you that have a mortgage and you've got a low interest rate, I would move that money into some other investment that will over time make you money. Because as interest rates go up, which they will, you could pocket it into bonds or fixed assets that will make you a nice return over time. So, yeah.

Dave: That makes sense.

Heath: Eventually when you retire, you can take that money and pay it off.

Dave: Sure. Well, great. Well, now I want to turn the topic to, and I don't mean to change the subject so quickly.

Heath: No, you good.

Dave: But, so I'd like to turn the subject to podcasting after all the name of this podcast is Podcasting Stories. So let's tell some podcasting stories, okay?

Heath: Okay.

Dave: So like me, I believe you've been an avid listener of podcasts for a long time. What year did you probably first listen to your first podcast?

Heath: Wow. I mean, I want to say five years ago, six years ago, right.

Dave: Let's call it six years.

Heath: I mean, I guess close to the beginning of a podcast, I don't... Yes.

Dave: Okay. So let's say six years for simple math. And so how long ago was it then? Or I guess after how much listening of podcast did the thought strike you that you would like your own podcast?

Heath: Yeah. Maybe a couple episodes in, you have these ideas and you think, yeah. But the technology piece is a little frightening for me, I've got a lot of young kids that work for me that handle all the technology. So, but yeah, being able to be part of a podcast would have been fun, so.

Dave: Sure. And so this hypothetical podcast that you thought about six years ago, what would you have wanted to have accomplished on that podcast? What kind of gave you the calling to want to do that?

Heath: Yeah. Originally probably going back to that first fiance, if you will, the idea of just being able to ask really good questions. And I say the first fiance because when we broke up I was thinking about what are some things I could take away from that relationship? And the one thing, and the one most valuable part of that entire relationship was happened on our first date. We were at a bar and after about three hours of actually talking, she looked at me and had a big smile on her face and asked me, said something to me that I was totally not expecting, but she said to me, "Heath I know everything there is about you, but you haven't asked me one question and I'm not sure you know anything about me." And I can't even believe that she actually went out with me after that, but she did. And she taught me the value of questions.
And I didn't even realize up to that point in my life that questions are the key to life. Right? Most people are walking around looking for the answer, but what she taught me is, if you want to have a relationship with someone, you got to ask them a question. If you want knowledge, you got to ask yourself a question, where am I going to find that knowledge? If you want to have a great podcast, you want to hear a good story from someone you want to ask them a really great set of questions that will lead them down a path that you can connect with the audience and great questions tell great stories.
And so that's what kind of got me into it. And up until that point in my life, until she said that to me, it's like the student will arrive when the teacher appears, but I always struggled with feeling like people didn't like me or I had trouble with relationships. And it was in that moment I realized what that trouble was and that's just that I had not grown up with parents that taught me the value of asking questions. And only because they had had difficult childhood as well and so they were never taught that skill. And so not to hold anything against them, they've been great parents, but just the value of asking questions both for your kids. It's like, there's two things for anyone that has kids that you can teach your kids that you'll never learn in school. They don't teach these two skills in school.
Number one is leadership skills. That's the skill of leading yourself, but also other people. Leadership is influencing other people, but first you've got to influence yourself before you can influence someone else. And the second one, that no one ever teaches us in life, and probably why people are frustrated all the time, is because they've never been taught the lesson or the skill of solving a problem. How often do you encounter problems Dave? All the time, right?

Dave: All the time, every time.

Heath: Every day you wake up. Right? And so the skill of solving a problem comes with asking the right question, right? Asking yourself the right question. Usually you can experience, why am I always late? It's not a really good question to ask yourself. You might say, well, what can I do to make sure that I'm five minutes early every time? Right. What can I do to make sure that I'm financially secure later on in life? Not why am I always broke? That's the wrong question. Right? So, yeah. That's why-

Dave: Because your subconscious will look for answers to that question, right?

Heath: That's right. So, but yeah, those are the two skills that I think any parents should teach their kid, leadership and problem solving. And problem solving is, problems occur because we want things a certain way and who is to say that what's happening right now is not exactly what's supposed to be happening. The problems that you're having in life are building you up for a better life in the future. So, a friend of mine once said, "Pretend like it's not happening to you, but it's happening for you." And that just little shift right there will change your perspective of what's happening, so.

Dave: Okay. Well, that is really insightful. And so to summarize, what gave you the motivation or the desire to have a podcast is you thought that there were some life lessons that you could share. And you also thought that from what you've learned about asking questions that you thought you could take that talent and apply it to some really interesting guests with the result being that there would be some interesting stories that would come from that, that you wanted to be able to share with people who might benefit. Did that about summarize it?

Heath: Yes. And recently I was speaking with a guy that's helping me with my business named Jack Daley. And what I passionately want to do is talk to interesting people around the world and get their stories. And he said, what you've done in the mortgage business, you should interview other loan officers and help other loan officers hone their skills, because the skills that you learned in the mortgage business, you can pass on to other people that can be passed on in any industry, because it's really the basis of learning how to operate a great business.
So, I think that's the direction we're going to go. So, we'll be interviewing some key professionals in the mortgage industry to give people life skills, to learn how to take their business to the level that they want it to be. So, we'll be interviewing people that are, some of them haven't been in the business for three to five years, or a couple of years, or one year and people that have been in it 20 years. And you'll see a range of income from 100 grand a year to $5 million in a year. So I think that if you want a great career, the mortgage businesses is a great avenue.

Dave: Now, that sounds great. Well, you've sold me that it makes sense to have a podcast. So you had the idea six years ago of having a podcast, it makes sense to me, what the heck took you so long to get this thing launched Heath? I mean, I'm going to kind of be a little tough on you here. What took you so long?

Heath: Yeah. Just number one is fear, who's going to listen to you. No one's going to listen to you. For the longest time, I had a really tough time just speaking on any recorded line or for that matter in public. I used to get even probably 10 years ago, if I had to introduce myself, my heart would be racing and I went to Toastmasters. And for those of you that don't feel like you speak well in public, Toastmasters is a great place to go, every town in America has one. And I think I quit three times, because of the pandemic I haven't been to Toastmasters, but I'm soon going back because this is a great place for young people to learn how to speak in public.
And they have one part that it's called table topics where you're asked a question and you got to speak for one minute about that question. And I've never realized that asking a question and being able to speak for one minute is so difficult. So yeah, just the fear of speaking in public, whether I was going to have an audience or not. And yeah, so it's... and then technology as well, it's knowing how to do it and taking time to stop and put it together, so.

Dave: Yeah. And so, if I'm hearing you and the feedback I've received from a lot of people is just that they consider a podcast and this was my story by the way, not to digress too much, but I started listening to podcasts about like you five or six years ago, I wanted to do one and every time I would look at it, I just, I never got past trying to figure out what equipment I needed, let alone how I would do the recording, the editing, how you get it published to the platforms. And so finally, a couple of years ago, somebody who had a podcast was kind enough to let me just kind of piggyback on their podcast and just let me replicate what they're doing. And then over the course of a couple of years, that evolved into a very different system than what they used.
And I started getting requests a few months ago from folks saying, "Hey, I'd love your help with what you've done." And because I've owned the podcast for years, but I just can't pull it off. And as a result of that, just recently I've launched a new company called Your Podcast Team, and our service is called podcast done for you. So in a way the answer might be that you would have had your podcast sooner if I hadn't dragged my feet and offered to do this for you sooner. Right? Is that about right?

Heath: That's right. It's your fault Dave, but I appreciate you thinking of me and calling me and saying, "Hey, you want to have a podcast?" So you figure it out that one of the key to being successful in anything in life is you find someone else that's way ahead of you and say, "Hey, can you show me the ropes?" It's funny when I got in the mortgage business, I struggled for the first nine years. And I struggled because I wanted to do it on my own. And for those of you that are listening, there's no original idea or thought they've all been thought up and done and so you can do a variation, but yeah. Find somebody else that's doing it better than you and follow their footsteps.

Dave: I agree completely. So what are some of the ways that you see the podcast as being beneficial both to you and to your team?

Heath: Yeah. Podcast is just a great way to reach a lot of different people. I coach loan officers around the country now, and there's just new ideas no matter how long someone's been in the business. I get new ideas from people that are making a lot less money, doing a lot less loans, but just small shifts in their business and finding out, what are the things that make them successful in their business and in life? I think everyone, all of us have the different gifts that we've been given, personality differences that allow us to be successful in business, whatever you define as success. Some people say, it's how much money you make. And some people say, I have a friend, his name is David Spray, you might've heard of him. But yeah, he said, one of the things that I always remember about you, Dave, is you said, you went to your account one time and said, "Hey, how do I get some more free time in my life?"
And your accountant said, "What? You need some ROL, Return on Life. And so, yeah, balancing that ROL with ROB, Return on Business. Yeah, just, I think that the ideas that people will hear on the podcast, they can listen to them over and over again. And depending on where you are in your business will help you find some new ideas and strategies on where you could go in your business. So, again, it could be for, even though it's in the mortgage industry, a lot of the things that we'll talk about, you can apply to your own business no matter what it is, so.

Dave: That is great. And I appreciate you mentioning the ROL because I think of that regularly. So you've talked about one difficult time in your life which was your fiance who told you she no longer loved you and the lessons you learned. Has that been the only difficult time you've had in your life as the rest of it have all smooth sailing, or has there've been some other difficult times you've had that have helped you?

Heath: Just all easy from there. She left me and that she told me the questions and I figured it out. No, it's funny I had an employee of mine come into my office just the other day and she's been with me for maybe four months and she is almost in tears and she said, "Heath, just to like, I'm doing terrible and I'm making all these mistakes." And when I help her look at the fact that she came from a company where she'd been in the business for 25 years and got really good at it and now she's doing a new industry, she was in tears and just letting her know, hey, listen, it's part of life, is having these things that come up, having these problems that come up in business and it's okay.
So, anyways, but back to what you had asked me, the difficult time for me, at least early in my career when I think about it, in 2008, I had a consultant that came in and he interviewed literally, I think I had 12 or 13 people working for me at the time. And he interviewed all the people in my office and he spent an entire day doing this and he put together, which I still have today, if you came to my office, I'll pull it out and I'll show it to you. But he put together this PowerPoint presentation that he went over with me and literally at the end of that time period, he said, "Listen Heath, this can be hard for you to hear, but you should fire everyone, no one likes working with you. And the people that are working with you only are working with you because they haven't found a new job yet, are you're paying more than they could get anywhere else and none of that is a recipe."
And I literally remember thinking, wow, man, I just wanted to cry. And, but I didn't tell anybody, it's you're so shameful that you don't want to tell anybody. And I hadn't surrounded myself with other really successful mortgage people because I wanted to prove it on my own that I could do it. And I had a guy named Jeff Wagner who's here in the Houston area as a loan officer, even today we're still friends, but he came to me. I was walking through the office one day, he was handling my marketing and said Jennifer Hernandez, who's a loan officer here in Houston is being coached by a guy named Rick Ruby at the CORE Training.
And I was on the phone immediately signed up to go to their next event. And that was just a few months after I was supposed to fire everyone. And he was right, I didn't fire everyone, but there's everyone eventually left, but it was the print things that I learned in the CORE Training. And it was just that day that I really realized in my life, listen, don't try to figure it out on your own, find other people who are better than you and learn from them, don't be so prideful. So yeah, that was a super difficult day in my life.

Dave: Yeah. I can imagine. So the gentleman you'd mentioned, Rick.

Heath: Yeah. Rick Ruby. So yeah, he started the CORE and that the organization that he built it's called the CORE Training. I was with the CORE Training for about almost 10 years, 11 years and coached for him I think almost five. And it's a militant style organization, but there's some of us need that type of guidance in our life, but he has built this organization. And it has some of the best loan officers in the country. And at the time when I joined it in, I think 2009. And it was about three years later, four years later, through that coaching I was able to get... they asked me to be a coach. And so I started coaching other loan officers. And I never forget just being just crazy scared of coaching other people.
And it's the same thing in business. Most of us get in business and we're scared we're not gonna make it. And sometimes you just got to keep getting up every day and busting through that fear and uncomfortableness, because on the other side of all uncomfortableness is the key to life. That's everything that makes us a little nervous in life. When we end up doing it, we usually say to ourselves what? It wasn't that difficult. Right. And we usually find that whether it's a race that you're in or you're starting a new business, or you're starting a new exercise program, it's a little... you become nervous and uncomfortable. So, and I've got something that helps me be uncomfortable every day. So, yes, that's what you want to have, something that makes you uncomfortable every day, so you can continue to grow. But, anyways.

Dave: I know there's one thing that makes you uncomfortable every day. Well, at least would make me uncomfortable every day.

Heath: What's that?

Dave: And it involves some cold water, doesn't it?

Heath: Oh, yeah. So, I've got a cold plunge at my house and I've been following the kind of cold water therapy. I've got a 19 cubic foot chest freezer that I've converted into a cold plunge that if you just Google that on YouTube, you can figure out how to make it, but it's... I usually keep it about 45 to 50 degrees and I get in, in fact I was in it this morning for about three minutes and it never gets easy, but there's some amazing health benefits to it. And through this pandemic, I feel like it's helped me stay healthy and sound. And you should try it Dave, well, was that you have one.

Dave: I know you've been kind enough to suggest that many times. So I appreciate, maybe I just need to go try yours first kind of a try before you buy.

Heath: Absolutely long bike rides.

Dave: Yeah. Perhaps, so besides Rick, any other influential people in your career that are worth mentioning?

Heath: Yeah. I think some people probably have heard of Tony Robbins, but I'm a big fan of Tony Robbins and have been, I know sometimes he can be a controversial figure, but he has been around for a long time and I just noticed a huge shift in the way I see myself and other people. And I think through his programs that I started, I guess, six years ago, it seems like, he really allows you to understand yourself better. And I don't know about you Dave, but it's for me, I've always been kind of scared of people and making people upset and what people are thinking about me and what people want.
And he just really helped me understand better about myself in life and how to see problems and things that happen. And so yeah, he's been a big influence on me as well as obviously he always got to mention your parents, my mother and father have been a big influence on me, even though they didn't teach me the value of questions. They did teach me the value of compassion upon other people. So, but yeah, that would be the other person that's had the biggest influence on me as well. How about yourself?

Dave: That is great. No, I'm the one asking the questions. So my answer would be, let's see, it would be Victor Frankl, the author of Man's Search for Meaning and perhaps Dan Sullivan, the founder of strategic Coach and then my parents. And then of course my wonderful wife, Christine, she's been a wonderful influence on me. In fact, speaking of which you have a great story about Cynthia that you told me and I have shared with lots of people in an anonymous fashion, are you prepared to share with 8 billion people the story I talk about? What you told her about you're a are a difficult man to probably be married to and if she ever wants?

Heath: Yeah. So a funny thing is about, I mean, I love Cynthia to death. We've been married for 15 years and yeah, she came into my life at a really tragic time, I just lost my first fiance Roxanne as was her name. And Cynthia and I dated for a few months and Roxanne came in back into my life and while Cynthia and I were dating and she did this, the most amazing thing, she said, "You know what? Heath I don't think it's a good time for us to be dating right now." And she cut it off and that I never forgot that. And we became friends and then six months later I needed to date and I called her and we've been together ever since. But yeah, man, she is a super patient and understanding and she knows the crazy in me, we all have this little crazy streak in us that she's just has super a lot of patience.
And people ask me all the time, first of all they ask me, one thing I say is they asked me, do you have any kids? And I say, well, I don't have any kids, but my wife has one and that's me. So, fortunately we got married later in life. And then another thing people say is... I'll share two other stories and then another thing I'll say to people and it makes them a little uncomfortable when I say this and everyone will feel uncomfortable, she and I have a great relationship. Our relationship is so good, we have sex almost every day, almost on Monday, almost on Tuesday, almost on Wednesday, almost on Thursday, we get really close on Friday.
And so when I tell that story to people, I mean, that's... If you feel like it's especially it's great if it's like a real formal event and we start talking about lives and everybody's got this straight face and I'll say, and they look at me and I'm like in that story, and it's funny because you can tell the smarter people in the room, they get it after Tuesday and then the last thing that I'll say about Cynthia people and it's actually true is, if she ever left me, like literally if she packed her bags and she left, I would do the same. I had packed my bags and I would just go with her because that is no way I want to live this life alone, so I know you get to laugh, so.

Dave: Yeah, the way you told it to me was a little bit differently.

Heath: Tell me.

Dave: And you said something like, yeah, I've told Cynthia, I know that I'm probably not the easiest guy to live with. I'm not the easiest guy to be married to. So I just want you to know that if you've ever had enough and you just can't take it anymore and you need to leave me, I just want you to know you have my full and complete support, but you just need to know if you leave, I'm going with you.

Heath: That's right.

Dave: So it's a very liberating thing, right? She has the freedom to leave anytime she wants, but-

Heath: I'm going to be right behind you.

Dave: That's awesome. Well, Heath this has been really a lot of fun. And if people want to learn more about you or reach out to you, I believe that your website, heathbarnes.com is probably the best place. Is that correct?

Heath: Yeah. That'd be the best place then. And I encourage people. Yeah. If I can help you in any way and you have a question or you just want to engage about something, I'm more than happy to help, yeah, that's why we're here, so.

Dave: And that website is primarily for the podcast, but there will be two links, one if they want to be a guest on the show and then secondly, there'll be another link where if they just want to reach out to you for something else they can do so. And well, was there anything that we didn't discuss today that you think we should have?

Heath: I think we knocked it all off, we knocked it all out. I mean, I appreciate the opportunity to be a guest and I like all your questions. Can I use some of them?

Dave: Absolutely. I'm sure like you said, I borrowed them from somebody else so you can borrow them from me. No problem. Well Heath, thank you again for making time to be on the show and thank you for entrusting us to do your podcast for you. And finally, thank you so much for your friendship. I value it more than you know.

Heath: Yeah, same here, Dave. I appreciate you man. Wish we could spend some more time together. Maybe I'll move in with you in Colorado this year.

Dave: Sounds great.

Heath: Standing with you but you are to vail, that'd be fun.

Dave: That sounds great. Well, have a great day Heath.

Heath: All right, you too.

Dave: And there we have it, another great episode. Don't forget to check out the show notes at www.podcastingstories.com. This podcast is brought to you by your Podcast Team. If you have ever considered having your own podcast, head over to www.yourpodcast.team to learn more about how they can help you. That's it for this episode, have a great week and we'll talk to you next time.